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Post by absurdexposition on Nov 13, 2010 11:34:10 GMT -5
no matter what you think is cool, Magrudergrind is going to do what's best for Magrudergrind. this.
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Post by thelampincident on Nov 13, 2010 12:38:18 GMT -5
Saying "you will see your idols sell out" is such a self-fulfilling prophecy. Someone, somewhere has to be bold enough to break the chain.
This whole campaign is nothing but viral marketing. Think of how much money a company like Scion would have to spend on advertising normally. Millions of dollars go into television and radio ads, both in production and paying for the air time. This company paying five thousand dollars for recording costs is nothing. Pressing a slew of CDs compared to that is nothing. So where does all the saved money get put? Dodging lawsuits? Or more likely. simply lining the pockets of the upper level executives at Scion. Anybody who supports or condones this move has clearly not put any thought into the workings of this (or just doesn't care, which is even worse) and I find it appalling. At the very least labels like Relapse and Earache are record labels only, and though their morals may be corrupted, at least they are about the music. I don't buy for one second that Scion has no alterior motive here and thinking about other people in the scene just standing by and letting it happen thoroughly repulses me.
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Post by yeastydeath on Nov 13, 2010 14:11:54 GMT -5
If the cd is free, and I'm not being affected by the advertising scheme, I really see no problem in listening to it. I may not rave about it to others, or if I do, I'll be sure to do enough shit talking of Scion to make up for it. Again, odds are very few people are actually going to be purchasing Scions from this. Maybe it will cause people to look into other releases on the label that might not be free, but I think that's as far as it goes. Would I prefer to see it on a label I would feel better about supporting? Absolutely.
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Post by kuchar on Nov 13, 2010 15:44:31 GMT -5
yeah, let's destroy punk\crust\grindcore scene from inside by moving our releases to labels that doesn't care for nothing more than cash... believe or not, but there's still some bands that will not sell their ideas and music even for 100000$. and they are not youngsters! people fight with nazi scum in europe just to have place to play gig, defending the scene, mading their own studio cause they don't have a place to record their albums while others just having fun and showing that dealing with corporations is so fuckin' cool scene is not only fuckin music - it's also ideals! yeah, i'm sure that scion is really interessted with ideas from DIY scene... fuck the fests and labels where blast smell like shit maybe some people feel very comfortible as a parasites, just sitting and creating their music. congratulations! i wish them few years in other reality, where being part of scene is more difficult than playing the music.
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Post by olegrinder on Nov 13, 2010 16:06:42 GMT -5
Saying "you will see your idols sell out" is such a self-fulfilling prophecy. Someone, somewhere has to be bold enough to break the chain. It's just the way things work, progress or regress. And even if you manage to buck the trend and progress, you still have to worry about whatever system you build breaking down. It's called entropy. What is 'breaking the chain' anyways? That's just some bullshit phrase that has no definite meaning. You want to stay indy/underground forever? Say it clearly and go ahead and do so. But chances are, after you're in a band for a long while, you'll be like "Fuck, this is a lot of work and we're fucking broke all the time." And then you adapt, or you quit. Again, clearly, you and I don't know the details of Magrudergrind's deal. Whatever it was, it was enough for it to be worthwhile to them. And not only take it, but plainly decide that other indy labels weren't going to get to release it. This whole campaign is nothing but viral marketing. Think of how much money a company like Scion would have to spend on advertising normally. Millions of dollars go into television and radio ads, both in production and paying for the air time. This company paying five thousand dollars for recording costs is nothing. Pressing a slew of CDs compared to that is nothing. So where does all the saved money get put? Dodging lawsuits? Or more likely. simply lining the pockets of the upper level executives at Scion. Anybody who supports or condones this move has clearly not put any thought into the workings of this (or just doesn't care, which is even worse) and I find it appalling. At the very least labels like Relapse and Earache are record labels only, and though their morals may be corrupted, at least they are about the music. I don't buy for one second that Scion has no alterior motive here and thinking about other people in the scene just standing by and letting it happen thoroughly repulses me. 1/5 rant quality. You're essentially saying that it's better to exploit the scene if you set your company to do so, than it is to be a big profitable company and dump monies into 'the arts'? Which, by the way, big corporations do all the time. LOL. Yeah, it's some kind of weird viral marketing campaign. I'm glad a band I like got some of the money. They probably need it. And I'll get a free record/cd. win-win to me. I don't even know where I can buy a Scion. If them putting out some free CD's sells some goober a car, well, good for them. They are in the bid'ness of selling cars.
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Post by olegrinder on Nov 13, 2010 16:27:17 GMT -5
yeah, let's destroy punk\crust\grindcore scene from inside by moving our releases to labels that doesn't care for nothing more than cash... believe or not, but there's still some bands that will not sell their ideas and music even for 100000$. and they are not youngsters! people fight with nazi scum in europe just to have place to play gig, defending the scene, mading their own studio cause they don't have a place to record their albums while others just having fun and showing that dealing with corporations is so fuckin' cool scene is not only fuckin music - it's also ideals! yeah, i'm sure that scion is really interessted with ideas from DIY scene... fuck the fests and labels where blast smell like shit maybe some people feel very comfortible as a parasites, just sitting and creating their music. congratulations! i wish them few years in other reality, where being part of scene is more difficult than playing the music. 1) Happens all the time, will continue to happen. Has not destroyed the scene yet, doubt it will in the future. 2) So will this. Depends on the band. 3) Good for you. I don't know of any local nazi scum to fight. I defend (your word) the scene here by helping out my friends. Not for money. But I'm afraid if some car company offered to pay me to make a poster or ad, I'd likely take the money, if it didn't offend my morals. 4) Punks have been recording themselves since the start too, but good job on the studio, cuz Suffering Mind usually sounds great. 5) Ideals are great, but I've never heard a band's van running on them or paying their rent. 6) I don't like corporations, I don't like fests, I've never driven a Scion, and I don't for a second think Magrudergrind thinks Scion Audio Visual cares about the scene either. But the money and music they spread from the money probably will help the scene. Magrudergrind will get to tour more easily. More bands will get to open for them. More people will see the bands opening for them. People sometimes like local bands, and then go out and support them. Make-a-de-world-go-'round, to quote a sage greater than I (that'd be Peter Griffin for all you east coasters!)
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Post by thelampincident on Nov 13, 2010 17:42:00 GMT -5
Okay so before I start replying to anything, to all you idiots out there who are saying "Oh the CD is free I'm not going to buy a Scion lololololol"... THE DAMAGE WAS DONE THE SECOND THE DEAL WAS REACHED. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE BUYING A CAR, THE POINT WAS TO GET BRAND AWARENESS OUT THERE AND SCION SAVED A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY MARKETING TO GULLIBLE FOLKS SUCH AS YOURSELVES. God! What is 'breaking the chain' anyways? That's just some bullshit phrase that has no definite meaning. You want to stay indy/underground forever? Say it clearly and go ahead and do so. But chances are, after you're in a band for a long while, you'll be like "Fuck, this is a lot of work and we're fucking broke all the time." And then you adapt, or you quit. That's fine by me. I would rather see a band I love quit than resort to this crap any day, because then they just become a pale, washed up version of themselves. Who needs to go see the same people doing the same act 20 years after they got sick of it when you can instead see a bunch of fresh new energetic faces applying a new take on the music? Suicidal Tendencies and DRI are playing up in my part of the country tonight, and those are two bands that have had a great influence on me. Problem is, those bands are full of washed up hacks so I'm choosing the smaller show tonight. The bands may not even be as good. I don't care because I know I'll have more fun and tons of people will go to the other show anyway so nobody loses. And this justifies it how? The point I was trying to make is that Relapse and Earache must still be solely focused on the music... otherwise, they would have started sponsoring things completely unrelated to music like the non-underground majors do. You got me in a bit of a bind with this point though, I admit. Scion is in the business of selling cars and I am in the HOBBY (not business, HOBBY) of finding new music to listen to all the time. I don't need some car company pushing a product in a scene I belong to that's supposed to be clear of this sort of crap. I have to put up with enough marketing in my daily life, let me have my escapism. If a band has been around long enough that they start thinking about money as the issue as opposed to the shows they're playing, I would encourage all of those bands to break up ASAP and we can find plenty of new kids with enthusiasm to replace them in a snap.
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Post by thelampincident on Nov 13, 2010 17:47:12 GMT -5
6) I don't like corporations, I don't like fests, I've never driven a Scion, and I don't for a second think Magrudergrind thinks Scion Audio Visual cares about the scene either. But the money and music they spread from the money probably will help the scene. I'd just like to go ahead and disagree with this point while I'm at it... it is obvious enough that the world runs on money, but you may as well be arguing that the scenes with the most money in them are the best scenes with this logic. In this case I should drop everything I'm doing and go buy some Lady Gaga and Katy Perry CDs... they're making the most money so they're obviously TOTALLY THE BOMB! I have no problem with having to work hard to afford musical gear or paying for recording time, and should I ever have a problem with it, I'll simply quit doing it. I really don't think it's fair to throw a bunch of hard working kids who love what they do under the bus just because I got sick of it and think it's not worth defending anymore. So we probably agree on more than we think, but what I've gotten out of this is that you would rather see bands who can play well together stick around long after they've stopped caring and I feel the opposite way. So be it.
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Post by BigSeth on Nov 13, 2010 17:58:13 GMT -5
RANTSVILLE....
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Post by absurdexposition on Nov 13, 2010 18:44:13 GMT -5
SCION SAVED A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY MARKETING TO GULLIBLE FOLKS SUCH AS YOURSELVES.[/quote Yet well all seem to agree that none of us are going to buy a Scion. Pretty gullible, huh? I would rather see a band I love quit than resort to this crap any day, because then they just become a pale, washed up version of themselves. Who needs to go see the same people doing the same act 20 years after they got sick of it when you can instead see a bunch of fresh new energetic faces applying a new take on the music? Suicidal Tendencies and DRI are playing up in my part of the country tonight, and those are two bands that have had a great influence on me. Problem is, those bands are full of washed up hacks so I'm choosing the smaller show tonight. The bands may not even be as good. I don't care because I know I'll have more fun and tons of people will go to the other show anyway so nobody loses. Magrudergrind hasn't been around for 20 years. They're not fat and lazy. They're not a "washed up version of themselves". Huge difference between Magrudergrind (Pulling Teeth, Trap Them, whoever's next) and fat caricatures who are REALLY doing it just for the money. Chumbawamba pulled this same thing (to a much greater extent), reaped the benefits from EMI and their mainstream/MTV exposure, using the money to fund their albums and legitimate "causes", and are back being an anarcho punk band again (never really ceasing to be one). Relapse and Earache must still be solely focused on the music... otherwise, they would have started sponsoring things completely unrelated to music like the non-underground majors do. Relapse advertisements on MySpace, anyone? If a band has been around long enough that they start thinking about money as the issue as opposed to the shows they're playing, I would encourage all of those bands to break up ASAP and we can find plenty of new kids with enthusiasm to replace them in a snap. First of all, when you do something as time consuming and labour-intensive as being an active band is for a long time and DON'T get money from it, no matter how much you love it, you won't be able to continue doing it. That applies to anything. Label, distro, band, arts, crafts, whatever... if you don't see somewhat of a return you're going to realize that spending a lot more than you make back is never going to work out in your favour. When you have to book time off or even quit your job to go on tour (that you willingly do because you enjoy the must you are playing and you WANT to tour and get kids stoked on you you jams), it gets to a point where your job wont let you take time off, you're tired of quitting jobs and starting fresh, or you have a job you like that you don't want to leave. A source of income is your security in this world. and that ties in with: I have no problem with having to work hard to afford musical gear or paying for recording time, and should I ever have a problem with it, I'll simply quit doing it. I really don't think it's fair to throw a bunch of hard working kids who love what they do under the bus just because I got sick of it and think it's not worth defending anymore. Who's being thrown under the bus here? This is hurting someone? Magrudergrind is getting money to put out a record of their songs and material that Scion has in no way influenced other than a financial contribution. So, again, who's being thrown under the bus here? Is getting a grant from the government so you can open up a studio or a record shop "throwing people under the bus" because people are utilizing funds that are available to them from the big evil government that punk bands write songs against?
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Post by olegrinder on Nov 13, 2010 19:53:37 GMT -5
That's fine by me. I would rather see a band I love quit than resort to this crap any day, because then they just become a pale, washed up version of themselves. Who needs to go see the same people doing the same act 20 years after they got sick of it when you can instead see a bunch of fresh new energetic faces applying a new take on the music? Suicidal Tendencies and DRI are playing up in my part of the country tonight, and those are two bands that have had a great influence on me. Problem is, those bands are full of washed up hacks so I'm choosing the smaller show tonight. The bands may not even be as good. I don't care because I know I'll have more fun and tons of people will go to the other show anyway so nobody loses. Didn't you just go see DRI a couple months ago? I couldn't agree more, but this kind of musical natual selection happens constantly. Old bands 'get boring' for whatever reason, new bands are more exciting. Just cuz you want something to happen doesn't mean shit. It's the guys in the band who decide when enough is enough. They are the ones making the art. You choose to consume it, or not. Based on whatever ground rules you feel makes music more rad. And this justifies it how? It means that Magrudergrind is still planning on operating the way they always have, as far as I know. It means they're big boys, experienced in this label stuff, and can make their own decisions about how their music is released. ...If a band has been around long enough that they start thinking about money as the issue as opposed to the shows they're playing, I would encourage all of those bands to break up ASAP and we can find plenty of new kids with enthusiasm to replace them in a snap. On the hobby-business-escapism thing, cuz it's just not realistic. Some corporation is always going to want that magic 18-34 male demographic. In fact, I bet giving $5k-10k to a band to record and press an assload of CD's is cheap compared to running a commercial. And @ bands and money; it's never worked that way. Look at the freakin' Rolling Stones, etc. The bitter fans that are left behind when a band starts to suck are always outnumbered by the douchebags that remember the one big radio-video-viral video hit. ;D 6) I don't like corporations, I don't like fests, I've never driven a Scion, and I don't for a second think Magrudergrind thinks Scion Audio Visual cares about the scene either. But the money and music they spread from the money probably will help the scene. I'd just like to go ahead and disagree with this point while I'm at it... it is obvious enough that the world runs on money, but you may as well be arguing that the scenes with the most money in them are the best scenes with this logic. In this case I should drop everything I'm doing and go buy some Lady Gaga and Katy Perry CDs... they're making the most money so they're obviously TOTALLY THE BOMB! I'm not saying corporate cash will help one local scene, rather that when given to a 'responsible' band it will have a ripple effect. Like mentioned upthread, the band with extra cash might take another band on tour with them, do another tour that local bands will open for, or even something as minor as fixing an amp - an amp they might let some other band borrow. It's not the scenes with the most cash, it's the scenes with the best resource management. The cash is just a resource.
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Post by manticoreisthebastard on Nov 13, 2010 22:42:16 GMT -5
It's not the scenes with the most cash, it's the scenes with the best resource management. The cash is just a resource. I think this is a very valid point and let's get real, while the rumored $5000 (I haven't seen any reliable source to check the validity of this) is a TON of money to the DIY scene, it's nowhere near the price tag on a major label contract. It's a one-off deal and that five grand could go a long way. Doesn't Chris live at the Corpse Fortress too (I'm not certain he still does, but i'm pretty sure he did)? Even a portion of five grand is a great resource for a punk house to have, as we all know turn out isn't guaranteed every show and sometimes the band has had multiple consecutive dropped shows before they even arrived. So, is the deal in itself evil? No, I don't think so really and not one of us has any clue what the band intends to do with the money. Now, do I want Scion to become an active and influential part of the punk scene? Hell no, but guess what? That's why there are individuals (just count the ones here even!) putting out do-it-yourself releases of the bands they enjoy and support. Don't forget that DIY punk works in a magical way not only because of self-reliance but also due to the micro economy that has been evolved because of it. We didn't create this, but we are perpetuating it and since it really is a small subculture, I don't think we have to worry about anyone taking control of it. With the reactions I've seen to this already, I'm truly not concerned by Scion attempting to invade the scene. If Scion attempted to release a full price 10,000 run of Magrudergrind or any similar band it would undoubtedly be a giant flop. But as is, this thing is: free, a resource that I hope will be properly utilized by the members of the band and more than anything, is probably the most clueless marketing scheme I've ever heard of. I could care less about kids who beg their parents to buy them Scions because of a free Magrudergrind CD because those kids usually don't pay to go to shows, probably don't really know grind and don't buy music in the first place since it's just going on their new iPods. In other words, the very few customers Scion may gain from this ploy most likely have nothing to do with punk, the continuation of punk or the inner workings and influence of the punk scene. I'm really not even interested in it, mostly because I thought the last record wasn't much to my liking anyhow. To me, it's stupid but it's harmless.
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Post by absurdexposition on Nov 14, 2010 14:28:41 GMT -5
I could care less about kids who beg their parents to buy them Scions because of a free Magrudergrind CD because those kids usually don't pay to go to shows, probably don't really know grind and don't buy music in the first place since it's just going on their new iPods. In other words, the very few customers Scion may gain from this ploy most likely have nothing to do with punk, the continuation of punk or the inner workings and influence of the punk scene.
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Post by ToLiveALie on Nov 15, 2010 14:51:28 GMT -5
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Post by andreswade on Nov 15, 2010 16:22:48 GMT -5
jay randall,while being kinda humorous in a not-so-seth putnam sort of way,is kind of a tool. i bet he'd be butthurt if i told him how much better aaron ulcer sounded with anb.
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Post by radderrobby on Nov 16, 2010 17:50:03 GMT -5
what's a magrudergrind?
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Post by thelampincident on Nov 16, 2010 19:34:42 GMT -5
It's a really great deli sandwich.
This thread wins my vote for "biggest migraine causer of the century".
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Post by BigSeth on Nov 16, 2010 21:14:37 GMT -5
It's a really great deli sandwich. This thread wins my vote for "biggest migraine causer of the century". THAT
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Post by ToLiveALie on Nov 16, 2010 21:25:06 GMT -5
It's a really great deli sandwich. This thread wins my vote for "biggest migraine causer of the century". THAT Wouldn't that be a Magrudergrinder?
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Post by thelampincident on Nov 16, 2010 22:20:05 GMT -5
ZZZZZZZZZZZZIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG
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Post by ToLiveALie on Nov 17, 2010 10:29:29 GMT -5
From their Myspace...
Many of you are probably wondering "why would Magrudergrind put out a record with Scion"?
- We decided to take up this offer in order to give out a 100% FREE, high quality record to everyone, at the expense of a Scion. Scion have covered all the costs for studio, manufacturing, etc.
- Over the years, Scion has dished out tons of money to support this scene. They have made it possible, so that we can all attend and play shows, for FREE, that we otherwise wouldn't be able to attend and play.
- What have we got out of this deal that we would have otherwise have worked with a standard label and the standard record label business model? Scion covers all recording and record manufacturing expenses. They have provided YOU with the platform to have a high quality Magrudergrind record for FREE.
- We did not receive any free car, any fat paycheck, but the ability to give every a free record at the expense solely on a big company that may not see any return on their investment. Who really wins here?
- If Scion covers the expenses of this record and say no one buys their product, who really gains? Us and every single person who got a Magrudergrind record for free.
- In the United States, we do not have wide scaled financial support from the government and industry players as they do elsewhere, for music and arts. We rather a company support music and arts, rather then spend their marketing campaign money on a stupid illuminated eyesore billboard. Everyone, especially in the hc/punk scene has a mind of their own and the agency to make their own consumption decisions. We are not going to, nor do we have the ability to force some kid to decide their purchase decisions. We all are exposed to advertisements and purchase decisions everyday. Even when we decide to buy some band t-shirt or a vinyl record (which has used energy and resources in the manufacturing process), it is up to the individual to make that choice.
- Regarding DIY and our ethical standpoint. We have always been, always will be and currently are very deeply involved in the band processes and the scene we are involved with. This includes our hand-on approach to our music, records, artwork, booking, merchandise, mail-order, etc. We have booked countless tours ourselves with the band, since we we're 17 years old, in the US, Europe and Asia. We have brought over and booked the tours, completely DIY, spending endless hours of work, to bring over many grindcore bands from Europe and Japan. We still take care of all the day-to-day tasks of this band and would not have it any other way. If anyone is questioning our involvement in the DIY scene, look at our hands on approach to everything involved with the band.
If someone has an issue or questions about why we did this or that, simply email us at: magrudergrind@hotmail.com
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Post by BigSeth on Nov 17, 2010 10:40:37 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be a Magrudergrinder? I just enjoyed the post. Mike from the internet is a funny guy.
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Post by swilliam on Nov 17, 2010 16:00:28 GMT -5
blessed be the holy Scion, that brought forth from the heavens a FREE MAGRUDERGRIND CD FOR ALL! We're Saved!!!
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Post by thelampincident on Nov 17, 2010 18:39:43 GMT -5
When I think of things that are beneficial to the scene, I think of mass producing it through a car company and allowing a whole legion of posers to get into the scene to party hard and like, pick up mad chicks bro. Say have you heard of this band The Devil Wears Prada? They're mad sick. Magrudergrind should like, totally tour with them so I can make out with my date at the show until the bouncers tell us not to, in which case I'll throw my rebellious middle finger in the air and tell him he can take away my Volcom hat and cut my shaggy hair, but he can never take away my freedom.
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Post by olegrinder on Nov 17, 2010 19:54:46 GMT -5
blessed be the holy Scion, that brought forth from the heavens a FREE MAGRUDERGRIND CD FOR ALL! We're Saved!!! There you go Will! A little ass-kissing and I bet we could see Scion presents Bullshit Propoganda... I'd love a free Hammer/Suffering Mind LP/Cass. Seriously though, no fat paycheck? Not even a slim paycheck? Is it still selling out if you're giving it away?
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